I spent a most enjoyable 90 minutes or so on a Skype call yesterday with more Moores than you can shake a stick at (Johnnie from the UK and Matt who is in Australia to be exact.. who depending on whom you speak with are either evil twin brothers or utterly unrelated...). At Johnnie's invitation we were discussing the Shadow side of organisations. Jung is credited with the term but it was interesting that the day we choose (unbeknownst to ourselves) was the 68th anniversary of the death of Sigmund Freud who had a thing or two to say about the hidden, unconscious and repressed side of ourselves. Johnnie is busy editing the conversation into a bite sized podcast and I'll post a link as soon as he's finished.
What I found fascinating about the conversation was that we're all coming from very different perspectives, working with different kinds of organisations and industries and had myriad examples of how the shadow manifests in organisations. Johnnie's shadow Mr Rant even had an outing, prompted by the term "Knowledge Manager" (which Matt is) after I shared my fantasy of what they do (putting manners on wayward and out of control files). Yes, it got silly at times but it was a thoroughly enjoyable way to spend a Monday morning and we uncovered lots of topics we'll return to in future conversations.
Last week Johnnie Moore, Matt Moore and I had a conversation about the shadow side of organisations. Part one of this is available as a podcast (click here) - show notes will follow and thanks to Johnnie for all the technical work. I hope you find the discussion interesting and do leave comments and feedback.
Update: Johnnie has written up some extensive show notes from the podcast which I am republising here:
Here are the show notes. Warning: These are unreliable. The timings are approximate and this is my paraphrasing of what was said. Don't take them it too literally. This was a conversation and not as linear as even these rough notes might suggest.
The elephant in the corner
0.00 Introductions and what this is about: the Elephant in the Corner and things that don’t get talked about
0.50 Annette asks Johnnie what prompted his focus on this? Why now? Johnnie describes a client conversation that may have pointed to his own shadow side… the “deep sense of ranklement” that suggests that there’s something for him to work on…
3.25 …and prompts Annette to look at how this might also be seen as a shadow on the client side “what job was your sense of shame doing for the organisation for which you worked?” Why does the shadow need to be hidden? Do we collude in scapegoating people inside organisations, or consultants that advise them?
“Difficult” people: scapegoats and clowns
Continue reading "The shadow side of organisations" »
Following the blogging and podcasting workshop I ran with Conn earlier this year and some of our conversations about extending the reach of publicly funded services Dun Laoghaire Rathdown County Council Library Service (a client of mine) decided to commission a series of 2 podcasts of one of their cultural events Books in the Park. The podcasts were created by Conn at Edgecast Media and part one The Children's Corner is now available for download from the DLRCC Library website. Part 2 is now also available by clicking here and features the adult authors who read in Cabinteely Park on June 23rd. They are Paul Carson, Sarah Webb, Robert Dunbar, Marisa Mackle and Jacinta McDevitt.
The event itself was held in Cabinteely Park on 23rd of June, organised by the Library and Parks Service and 5 Childrens' authors read their work to a rapt audience. Conn and Brian Greene recorded the events and interviewed a selection of people on the day and this episode includes authors Don Conroy, Oisin McGann, Aisling O Loughlin, Joe O Brien, Derek Landy. Mairéad Owens and Conor Peoples from the Library Service and some of the attendees are also included.
I'm hoping this is going to be the start of many more podcasts from Dun Laoghaire Rathdown who are trailblazing in this regard - and I'm hoping that other local authorities will follow. This is such a brilliant example of how to extend the reach of publicly funded services - it's about connecting with people where they are when they want rather than the other way around. The trick now is going to be to find ways of evaluating the impact of initiatives like this when they don't tick the traditional number-crunching formats. For now, I'm thrilled to have been part of the conversations that led to this development. The DLRCC Library site doesn't have a comment facility on the post (not yet anyway!) so please leave a comment here or at Conn's site, or alternatively drop the Library Service an email at libraries@dlrcoco.ie I know they would appreciate your feedback.
Part two of my conversation on the shadow side of organisations with Johnnie Moore and Matt Moore has now been posted by Johnnie - you can download it or listen to it here. Johnnie has also complied some great show notes which I am re-publishing I'm curious to know how long it took Johnnie to edit and prepare the audio and show notes...looks like lots of work to me (thanks Johnnie).
Here are the show notes with the same caveat as for part one: The timings are approximate and this is my paraphrasing of what was said. Don't take them it too literally. This was a conversation and not as linear as even these rough notes might suggest.
0.00 Annette asks Matt, with what I’d say is a slight sense of irony in her voice, what knowledge management really is. Is it a gatekeeper? It sounds like a very powerful position…
1.00 Matt says knowledge managers don’t wield a lot of power but they do wield influence. It’s about linking people together. Matt toys with the alternative label of “knowledge courtesan”. Some of the best knowledge managers were those women who ran the salons in eighteenth century France, who created environments for others to have conversations in.
2.50 It struggles with issues of control and secrecy.
3.05 Johnnie and Annette banter before Johnnie slips into Dr Rant mode. (So that’s the connection to the shadow, then.) What’s the problem with these knowledge management people? Are they just trying to raise their status with fancy language? Johnnie drags HR into the fight too.
5.15 Annette asks if Johnnie’s feeling better now.
5.25 Matt talks about how some professions are marginalised, and adds communications/PR to the list. In organisations some divisions have the power and everyone else wants a piece of the action and get into the limelight.
6.25 Annette: how did we end up vilyfying HR etc?
6.35 Johnnie tries to put his rant in context. (Nice try.)
7.10 How could the put-upon divisions be more in their power? Annette asks (great question): what’s useful about having a department to bully? How does that contibute to the established power systems in an organisation?
Annette talks about how HR can get stuck with giving out the bad news for others. Maybe HR, marketing and KM are saddled with trying to manage the mucky stuff of relationships that others don’t want to deal with.
8.55 What role does knowledge manager take up as a gate keeper? Matt responds. Problems of managing intangibles. How KM gets saddled with document management.
10.25 Annette: so there’s some truth to my idea of knowledge managers as gatekeepers.
11.15 There’s anxiety about control of information.. is it about controlling identity?
12.00 We can create the conditions in which stuff is produced but we can’t control what happens. It’s easy to blame the gatekeeper/scapegoat than look at what’s really going on. How do you get out of being the whipping boy? Looking at both sides of this – what’s the “problem department” doing to put itself in this role, and what’s the organisation’s investment in keeping it there?
14.20 Bringing conversation to a close and marking the anniversary of Sigmund Freud’s death.
16.15 End
How important is confidentiality at work? and how much of my product offering as a consultant is the guarantee that whatever is told to me will be held in confidence? Are consultants professional secret keepers? and how much of our work is containing and sanitising misdemeanours offering them back as palatable organisational learnings? What or whom are we minding?
Following my previous post on confidentiality I invited Johnnie Moore and Matt Moore to talk about these and other confidential matters via Skype this morning and here's the resulting podcast. Show notes follow and thanks to Johnnie for being the sound engineer on the project.
Download the podcast by clicking HERE. This is a 9MB file lasting just under 29 minutes.
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Show Notes
Disclaimer: These are a rough summary of the conversation accompanied by flexible/rough timings.
0.0 Annette
How important is confidentiality at work? and how much of my product offering as a consultant is the guarantee that whatever is told to me will be held in confidence? Are consultants professional secret keepers? and how much of our work is containing and sanitising misdemeanours offering them back as palatable organisational learnings? What or whom are we minding?
Introductions
How important is confidentiality at work?
0.50 Johnnie
It’s ‘very important’. It means different things to different people at different times – is it a way of addressing status – I had to sign an NDA etc. Sometimes it’s a status play. It is a way of entrapping the other person in something – am I doing you a favour or am I inviting you into a trap? It’s complex isn’t it?
2.08 Annette
How much of the conversation around confidentiality is in fact a seduction – around secrets?
2.18 Matt
One way of taking someone into your confidence is to offer them a secret and that has all kinds of levels and layers – does it happen once? Several times? And what happens when you break that trust?
Matt talks about his role as an internal consultant and how people entrust him with their secrets and the complexity of the messages and seductions contained within those secrets.
5.18 Annette
Annette notes that both Matt and Johnnie are talking about ‘intimacy’ and asks how we set up the conditions for that to take place. Psychoanalyst Adam Phillips talks about how we can set up the conditions for romance but there’s no guarantee that romance will happen – what kinds of ploys do Matt and Johnnie use to set up the romantic conditions for intimacy in the workplace?
6.32 Johnnie
Johnnie professes his interest in intimacy and his interest in web tools which foster intimacy.
Johnnie talks about the shift from confidentiality as control to a more open sharing of information via Open Space and other similar processes. He talks about relinquishing his role as ‘consultant confessor’ which has become an uncomfortable role. Am I getting in the way by holding a secret?
9.19 Annette
What burden is placed on someone designated as ‘knowledge manager’ to manage hidden knowledge – how does Matt manage the externalised ‘known knowledge’ with the internalised ‘unknown’?
9.41 Matt
Matt admits to being a hypocrite! The official versus the ‘real’ version of events often conflict. Matt then goes on to say how hypocrisy works in practice – including sanitising stories; the pleasure of being taken into someone’s confidence; the manufacture of intimacy and how hypocrisy functions as a social lubrication.
13.13 Annette
Consultants are also politicians in organisations and are we talking here about the context we create (or wish to create) rather than the content of what people are saying?
13.40 Johnnie
Creating explicitly ‘confident’ scenarios aren’t particularly enjoyable and neither do they work. Johnnie talks about how this works in practice.
15.43 Annette
There is often an assumption that the stories revealed in confidence have more truth than those revealed in public and also we are not capable of hearing or speaking truth in organisations. Does being an internal consultant add another layer to that mix?
16.23 Matt
Openness versus closedness is an interesting concept – we need to keep some things private. Matt is often asked to take sides – to join a tribe - and secrets are a way of extending this invitation. Matt talks about respecting the invitation while not getting pulled in..
19.15 Annette
Scepticism is useful – our relationship with secrets and confidences is influenced by splits good/bad; useful/unhelpful – can we strike a balance between them? Respecting what this intervention has to offer for this system?
20.12 Johnnie
Explicit confidentiality agreements can serve to shut down the sharing of confidences and sensitive information – the opposite is often the case. The paradox here is that less is shared when the discussion is explicit – when it becomes ritualised it becomes less effective. Johnnie talks about the difference between hard and soft trust.
22.07 Annette
There is a dance in negotiating confidence – in removing that dance we give a message that there is apart of me or thoughts I want to share that are unacceptable.
22.48 Johnnie
Johnnie asks about what that negotiation means – is it explicit? Is it implicit? What does it look like?
23.21 Annette
Annette talks about unconscious and non verbal negotiations that invite revelation – seeking permission to inquire about someone’s personal story.
23.50 Matt
We prefer to have soft trust – informal trust but we fall back on hard trust and the rules when that isn’t guaranteed and when there are issues of power and status at play. If you are genuinely sharing yourself you make yourself vulnerable and organisations are treacherous places…
25.07 Johnnie
Perhaps it’s our job to be the ones who are willing to be vulnerable – it’s easy to revert to rules but it’s useful to talk about our own vulnerabilities as it gives permission to those we work with to talk about theirs.
26.16 Annette
We have all kinds of things in our consultancy toolkits but feelings are the primary ones that I draw on
26.30 Johnnie
Suggests pausing the conversation there for now..
27.07 Annette
Thanks to Matt and Johnnie for sharing their thoughts.
Wandering around cyberspace this week looking for interesting podcasts to take with me on the flight to New York at the end of the week brought me to these conversations with Adam Phillips. In BBC Radio 4's Open Book Phillips talks about his most recent book Side Effects and in this shorter clip he talks about Going Sane. There's a longer interview with Phillips recorded at the New York Public Library in May of last year here.